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	<title>Comments on: Hey white folks &#8211; it&#8217;s time to get really mad at me again!</title>
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	<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/</link>
	<description>politics, media, culture and life from a queer boricua in brooklyn</description>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-74882</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-74882</guid>
		<description>I enjoy discussing gentrification because it is often stating the obvious: the positive correlation between white/improvement and black/decline is too frequent to be coincidental and I agree that money has a lot to do with it. But I would also suggest that social mobility is a complex thing, especially if we look at it through the prism of race. This smacks of essentialism, racism, prejudice and so on. White people might feel indignant because (for once) they’re being targeted as the problem; black people will be bored stupid by the assertion that they bring an area down; members of both groups will say that basing the argument on race is silly and why can’t we all just get along. I’ve experienced both gentrification and decline; I was born in Westminster, lived in Brixton, then moved out to the suburbs as a kid where I grew up. What I’ve noticed is that a) I was part of a general shift of black, upwardly mobile, families who sold up in central London for the cleaner, greener areas just outside, b) that some of these families didn’t succeed, c) a lot of white people left the area and d) a lot of businesses closed causing certain areas to fall apart. The interesting thing is that the cultural displacement has definitely been black for white (even my dad mentioned that he’d been driving past my old school and noticed that the white kids who dominated when I was there have vanished) but the area has not gone in to such decline that even we’re attempting to move out. It’s a strange, precarious situation and I wonder how it will turn out. I’ve always wanted to leave, simply because I don’t like how far from the centre we are, but increasingly I think gentrification arises when the community that is already there allows an economic / social vacuum to exist. I fear I might be contributing to one by abandoning the area my parents worked so hard to move in to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy discussing gentrification because it is often stating the obvious: the positive correlation between white/improvement and black/decline is too frequent to be coincidental and I agree that money has a lot to do with it. But I would also suggest that social mobility is a complex thing, especially if we look at it through the prism of race. This smacks of essentialism, racism, prejudice and so on. White people might feel indignant because (for once) they’re being targeted as the problem; black people will be bored stupid by the assertion that they bring an area down; members of both groups will say that basing the argument on race is silly and why can’t we all just get along. I’ve experienced both gentrification and decline; I was born in Westminster, lived in Brixton, then moved out to the suburbs as a kid where I grew up. What I’ve noticed is that a) I was part of a general shift of black, upwardly mobile, families who sold up in central London for the cleaner, greener areas just outside, b) that some of these families didn’t succeed, c) a lot of white people left the area and d) a lot of businesses closed causing certain areas to fall apart. The interesting thing is that the cultural displacement has definitely been black for white (even my dad mentioned that he’d been driving past my old school and noticed that the white kids who dominated when I was there have vanished) but the area has not gone in to such decline that even we’re attempting to move out. It’s a strange, precarious situation and I wonder how it will turn out. I’ve always wanted to leave, simply because I don’t like how far from the centre we are, but increasingly I think gentrification arises when the community that is already there allows an economic / social vacuum to exist. I fear I might be contributing to one by abandoning the area my parents worked so hard to move in to.</p>
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		<title>By: A.R.</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-61470</link>
		<dc:creator>A.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-61470</guid>
		<description>I see it in Toronto as well, although the racial overtones don&#039;t seem to be there. Let me elucidate with an example: a neighbourhood becomes cool, and all of a sudden its restaurants get blog and media attention, but only the new ones. The older businesses get ignored as if worthless and meaningless. 

It&#039;s positive that neighbourhoods become more mixed income, and wealth revitalizes and beautifies, but at the same time there&#039;s a new tragedy unfolding when the new wealthier residents don&#039;t care to take an interest in the established culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see it in Toronto as well, although the racial overtones don&#8217;t seem to be there. Let me elucidate with an example: a neighbourhood becomes cool, and all of a sudden its restaurants get blog and media attention, but only the new ones. The older businesses get ignored as if worthless and meaningless. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s positive that neighbourhoods become more mixed income, and wealth revitalizes and beautifies, but at the same time there&#8217;s a new tragedy unfolding when the new wealthier residents don&#8217;t care to take an interest in the established culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh-Anne</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50430</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh-Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50430</guid>
		<description>Well done, Jack!!!

And yeah, the concept is simple: a primarily white middle and upper-class with the power and privilege to *choose* where they live invade and then wholly occupy a region that was once predominately poor and working-class (usually) people of color without the power and privilege to *choose* where they live -- folks who don&#039;t have the power to successfully resist being pushed out of the neighborhoods in which their ancestors resided. 

What is there to debate about that?

Why is it so difficult for so many middle and upper-class white folks to simply accept their complicity -- both voluntary and involuntary -- in the oppression of others? Right... their indulgences must be guilt-free... see, hear, nor speak evil...

What&#039;s interesting about gentrification is that it always starts, as you and some of your commentators point out, with the &quot;slummers&quot; -- middle &amp; upper-class white folks in search of illegal leisure activities and/or the &quot;exotic,&quot; which (they perceive) people of color of being so good at providing. These poor neighborhoods of color were, in a sense, created by middle and upper class whites who demanded segregation -- a safe haven (i.e., suburb) in which to raise their children free of the vices they believe proliferate neighborhoods of color. So, the neighborhoods in which poor, law-abiding people of color live become sites for illegal gambling venues and prostitution (for example) because these poor folks do not have the power to stop these vice institutions from taking root and thriving in their neighborhoods.

Middle and upper-class white folks take the meaning of &quot;don&#039;t shit where you eat&quot; to heart when they leave their comfortable homes in the suburbs, albeit temporarily, to consume cheap, available and illegal sex, drugs -- whatever their hearts desire -- and once they&#039;ve satiated their various appetites, they return to their homes... homes situated in what mainstream media tells us are morally pristine communities.

White &quot;tourists&quot; create these poor neighborhoods of color and white gentrifiers demolish them to establish permanent playgrounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Jack!!!</p>
<p>And yeah, the concept is simple: a primarily white middle and upper-class with the power and privilege to *choose* where they live invade and then wholly occupy a region that was once predominately poor and working-class (usually) people of color without the power and privilege to *choose* where they live &#8212; folks who don&#8217;t have the power to successfully resist being pushed out of the neighborhoods in which their ancestors resided. </p>
<p>What is there to debate about that?</p>
<p>Why is it so difficult for so many middle and upper-class white folks to simply accept their complicity &#8212; both voluntary and involuntary &#8212; in the oppression of others? Right&#8230; their indulgences must be guilt-free&#8230; see, hear, nor speak evil&#8230;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting about gentrification is that it always starts, as you and some of your commentators point out, with the &#8220;slummers&#8221; &#8212; middle &amp; upper-class white folks in search of illegal leisure activities and/or the &#8220;exotic,&#8221; which (they perceive) people of color of being so good at providing. These poor neighborhoods of color were, in a sense, created by middle and upper class whites who demanded segregation &#8212; a safe haven (i.e., suburb) in which to raise their children free of the vices they believe proliferate neighborhoods of color. So, the neighborhoods in which poor, law-abiding people of color live become sites for illegal gambling venues and prostitution (for example) because these poor folks do not have the power to stop these vice institutions from taking root and thriving in their neighborhoods.</p>
<p>Middle and upper-class white folks take the meaning of &#8220;don&#8217;t shit where you eat&#8221; to heart when they leave their comfortable homes in the suburbs, albeit temporarily, to consume cheap, available and illegal sex, drugs &#8212; whatever their hearts desire &#8212; and once they&#8217;ve satiated their various appetites, they return to their homes&#8230; homes situated in what mainstream media tells us are morally pristine communities.</p>
<p>White &#8220;tourists&#8221; create these poor neighborhoods of color and white gentrifiers demolish them to establish permanent playgrounds.</p>
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		<title>By: pure0vodka</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50270</link>
		<dc:creator>pure0vodka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50270</guid>
		<description>In general I do agree with you about the whole &#039;you shouldn&#039;t be changing places because of the fact that richer people move there and fading out the low-incomes&#039;. Def. a bad thing! However, it should be divided in rich and poor and NOT in white, black, hispanic, etc. I am a white girl: blonde, skinny and all the works. Do I have money? NO! Can I afford to live somewhere else than Harlem? NO! Sorry that this is a bother to fellow African-Americans! Sorry that damn Indians used to live here before Whitey OR Blacky! Times change... Harlem will be long remembered as a place for black communities, just as it will be remembered a long time for crime, even though that rate went down drastically, and I know/hope that the black community is feeling good about THAT change.
I try to ignore people that look at me weird or come up with dumb-ass comments when I go into a shop where the local black man runs the place... I can&#039;t afford a fancy cafe, so I have to go where I get &quot;emotional abuse&quot; - where I am looked at as the stuck-up whitey! It&#039;s no fun for me either... So, I am staying here because I have no choice for several reasons... BUT when I get a decent-paying job or when somebody feels like throw cashing at me I will not hesitate to move to upper-class as wouldnt any other race!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general I do agree with you about the whole &#8216;you shouldn&#8217;t be changing places because of the fact that richer people move there and fading out the low-incomes&#8217;. Def. a bad thing! However, it should be divided in rich and poor and NOT in white, black, hispanic, etc. I am a white girl: blonde, skinny and all the works. Do I have money? NO! Can I afford to live somewhere else than Harlem? NO! Sorry that this is a bother to fellow African-Americans! Sorry that damn Indians used to live here before Whitey OR Blacky! Times change&#8230; Harlem will be long remembered as a place for black communities, just as it will be remembered a long time for crime, even though that rate went down drastically, and I know/hope that the black community is feeling good about THAT change.<br />
I try to ignore people that look at me weird or come up with dumb-ass comments when I go into a shop where the local black man runs the place&#8230; I can&#8217;t afford a fancy cafe, so I have to go where I get &#8220;emotional abuse&#8221; &#8211; where I am looked at as the stuck-up whitey! It&#8217;s no fun for me either&#8230; So, I am staying here because I have no choice for several reasons&#8230; BUT when I get a decent-paying job or when somebody feels like throw cashing at me I will not hesitate to move to upper-class as wouldnt any other race!</p>
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		<title>By: the black urban planner</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50208</link>
		<dc:creator>the black urban planner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50208</guid>
		<description>I see this ALL the time. Especially among other urban planners. Blacks and other minorities are not represented in planning and at the city meetings. And as the comment highlighted, the gentrifiers and planners think that these places are wastelands and that new people need to be brought into the neighborhood versus enhancing what is already there. It makes me sick as a planner and a black woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see this ALL the time. Especially among other urban planners. Blacks and other minorities are not represented in planning and at the city meetings. And as the comment highlighted, the gentrifiers and planners think that these places are wastelands and that new people need to be brought into the neighborhood versus enhancing what is already there. It makes me sick as a planner and a black woman.</p>
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		<title>By: Mari-Djata</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50149</link>
		<dc:creator>Mari-Djata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50149</guid>
		<description>To me, it is not the problem that white people are moving into historically black cities where black culture and wealth has flourished --it is the fact that where ever white people go, they destroy the culture and wealth that other people have made. When white people leave from blackening cities, it is called white flight and this more or less destroys the city&#039;s ability to maintain schools and other necessities because a whole bloc of its inhabitants have just desserted a perfectly good city because of their own racist reasons. When the people who stay in the city, struggled through with the city, and loves the city returns the city back to something they can leave comfortably in, all of a sudden white people want to come back and change everything. It is not right.

Gentrification is not right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, it is not the problem that white people are moving into historically black cities where black culture and wealth has flourished &#8211;it is the fact that where ever white people go, they destroy the culture and wealth that other people have made. When white people leave from blackening cities, it is called white flight and this more or less destroys the city&#8217;s ability to maintain schools and other necessities because a whole bloc of its inhabitants have just desserted a perfectly good city because of their own racist reasons. When the people who stay in the city, struggled through with the city, and loves the city returns the city back to something they can leave comfortably in, all of a sudden white people want to come back and change everything. It is not right.</p>
<p>Gentrification is not right.</p>
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		<title>By: liz</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50143</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50143</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been having conversations about this in my classes at school. I am a white queer jewish girl. My family lives on the Upper East Side. The woman who raised me lives in Crown Heights. Her rent is going way up. I try to tell my friends who move to NYC out of college to live in Riverdale/Johnson avenue area. Don&#039;t move to SoBro! Stay away from Crown Heights! And Bushwick! Oy.

Anyway, in a class last semester, we learned about a few concepts that white christian europeans used when justifying colonialism starting in the 15th century. One is Terra Nullius, the idea that colonized lands are &quot;no man&#039;s lands.&quot; Because the people are not Christian, they are not people. In addition, there was the idea of the ne plus ultra, or a point beyond which Christian peoples did not go past because it was considered too dangerous. I think both of these concepts can be directly applied, like what you&#039;re talking about. When there is an &quot;economically depressed,&quot; largely black/brown neighborhood, I think white people tend to consider them to actually have no people there, as evidenced by such comments as, &quot;Oh nobody lives there,&quot; or &quot;that&#039;s a pocket of poverty.&quot; Also, there are many ne plus ultras. Living on the Upper East Side, it was up around 96th street. &quot;Oh there&#039;s nothing up there,&quot; or it&#039;s SUPER dangerous past 96th street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been having conversations about this in my classes at school. I am a white queer jewish girl. My family lives on the Upper East Side. The woman who raised me lives in Crown Heights. Her rent is going way up. I try to tell my friends who move to NYC out of college to live in Riverdale/Johnson avenue area. Don&#8217;t move to SoBro! Stay away from Crown Heights! And Bushwick! Oy.</p>
<p>Anyway, in a class last semester, we learned about a few concepts that white christian europeans used when justifying colonialism starting in the 15th century. One is Terra Nullius, the idea that colonized lands are &#8220;no man&#8217;s lands.&#8221; Because the people are not Christian, they are not people. In addition, there was the idea of the ne plus ultra, or a point beyond which Christian peoples did not go past because it was considered too dangerous. I think both of these concepts can be directly applied, like what you&#8217;re talking about. When there is an &#8220;economically depressed,&#8221; largely black/brown neighborhood, I think white people tend to consider them to actually have no people there, as evidenced by such comments as, &#8220;Oh nobody lives there,&#8221; or &#8220;that&#8217;s a pocket of poverty.&#8221; Also, there are many ne plus ultras. Living on the Upper East Side, it was up around 96th street. &#8220;Oh there&#8217;s nothing up there,&#8221; or it&#8217;s SUPER dangerous past 96th street.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Borden</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-46172</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Borden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-46172</guid>
		<description>new is not necessarily bad.  prices go up and down and that is the way it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new is not necessarily bad.  prices go up and down and that is the way it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane J Standiford</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-44962</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane J Standiford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 05:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-44962</guid>
		<description>No answers, just curious what white people are upset about now. Gee, wht would Harlem BE without white folks? Just ask Bill O&#039;Really-Ahole. Gay guy has point, gays move into cheap rent, rundown area, jazz it up,, then str8 people move in and want us O U T. When is USA gonna get a clue? Shove us down, till we got something they want, then push us out and wear their super-hero speedo while doing it.
AngryWhiteButch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No answers, just curious what white people are upset about now. Gee, wht would Harlem BE without white folks? Just ask Bill O&#8217;Really-Ahole. Gay guy has point, gays move into cheap rent, rundown area, jazz it up,, then str8 people move in and want us O U T. When is USA gonna get a clue? Shove us down, till we got something they want, then push us out and wear their super-hero speedo while doing it.<br />
AngryWhiteButch</p>
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		<title>By: mmjd</title>
		<link>http://angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-41993</link>
		<dc:creator>mmjd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-41993</guid>
		<description>The inherent assumption behind this post is that black people become less black if they move to the suburbs, and that white people have no right to live in the city.

Let&#039;s remember that these neighborhoods now being &quot;colonized&quot; by whites were probably occupied by whites as recently as 60 years ago.  Then came WWII, and the resulting migration of Southern blacks to the industrial North.  The 1950&#039;s and the growth of suburbs, resulted in urban ethnic whites leaving the cities in high numbers--a phenomenon now known as white flight.  The consequences of white flight were tremendous--cities lost their much of their property tax bases, their populations declined, and their middle classes were decimated.  Crime increased, main streets were boarded up, and blacks were increasingly left in segregated urban ghettos.

In the past few decades, an increasing percentage of black Americans are joining the middle class, and many are moving to the suburbs.  This is good.  Also, many whites are moving back to the cities, which is reducing crime, increasing the tax bases, and creating economic activity in urban areas.  Admittedly, these whites moving in are likely to be what you call &quot;postmodern hipsters&quot; and not families with children.  That&#039;s the next step.  But let&#039;s take what we can get.

Undeniably, we have further to go.  Far too many blacks stil live in poor, high-crime, segregated neighborhoods, and far too many whites live segregated from people of other backgrounds.  But the gentrification of the cities and the diversification of suburbs are part of the solution--not the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The inherent assumption behind this post is that black people become less black if they move to the suburbs, and that white people have no right to live in the city.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s remember that these neighborhoods now being &#8220;colonized&#8221; by whites were probably occupied by whites as recently as 60 years ago.  Then came WWII, and the resulting migration of Southern blacks to the industrial North.  The 1950&#8242;s and the growth of suburbs, resulted in urban ethnic whites leaving the cities in high numbers&#8211;a phenomenon now known as white flight.  The consequences of white flight were tremendous&#8211;cities lost their much of their property tax bases, their populations declined, and their middle classes were decimated.  Crime increased, main streets were boarded up, and blacks were increasingly left in segregated urban ghettos.</p>
<p>In the past few decades, an increasing percentage of black Americans are joining the middle class, and many are moving to the suburbs.  This is good.  Also, many whites are moving back to the cities, which is reducing crime, increasing the tax bases, and creating economic activity in urban areas.  Admittedly, these whites moving in are likely to be what you call &#8220;postmodern hipsters&#8221; and not families with children.  That&#8217;s the next step.  But let&#8217;s take what we can get.</p>
<p>Undeniably, we have further to go.  Far too many blacks stil live in poor, high-crime, segregated neighborhoods, and far too many whites live segregated from people of other backgrounds.  But the gentrification of the cities and the diversification of suburbs are part of the solution&#8211;not the problem.</p>
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