Comments on: no one is illegal http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/ politics, media, culture and life from a queer boricua in brooklyn Thu, 28 Jul 2011 04:10:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: victoria http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-7909 victoria Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:32:43 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-7909 most immigrants are jus looking for a better life is it really that bad to do that for you or your family because i know i would anything for my family most immigrants are jus looking for a better life is it really that bad to do that for you or your family because i know i would anything for my family

]]> By: Ed http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-5256 Ed Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:17:43 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-5256 I'm curious. Have any of you visited countries outside of America? Mexico included? I can tell you that most countries do not have the lax immigration policies that America has. Japan and Australia come to mind. I haven't heard any compelling, concrete arguments from the pro-illegal immigrant side of the fence. All of their arguments are based on ethnic pride and blind emotional reaction rather than truth, logic and reason. When getting confronted by the possibility of paying for their trespassing, tax-avoiding crime, they bring up the usual excuse: "We just want to work and have a better life for our families!", "We are America!", "Were the Pilgrims legal?". Sorry, but Americans are not Pilgrims and Mexicans are not Indians. I’m curious. Have any of you visited countries outside of America? Mexico included? I can tell you that most countries do not have the lax immigration policies that America has. Japan and Australia come to mind. I haven’t heard any compelling, concrete arguments from the pro-illegal immigrant side of the fence. All of their arguments are based on ethnic pride and blind emotional reaction rather than truth, logic and reason. When getting confronted by the possibility of paying for their trespassing, tax-avoiding crime, they bring up the usual excuse: “We just want to work and have a better life for our families!”, “We are America!”, “Were the Pilgrims legal?”. Sorry, but Americans are not Pilgrims and Mexicans are not Indians.

]]> By: Jack http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4316 Jack Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:23:39 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4316 Yeah. One would hate to think that some of those people who were waving American flags were doing so <em>instead</em> of waving their own country's flag because of this kind of fucked up political objection and criticism. Yeah. One would hate to think that some of those people who were waving American flags were doing so instead of waving their own country’s flag because of this kind of fucked up political objection and criticism.

]]> By: belledame222 http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4272 belledame222 Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:49:06 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4272 ...okay, being "insulted" because someone wanted to carry the flag of their country of origin is just fucked up. In that context I get the resistance to the wave-the-U.S. flag thing. Ew. …okay, being “insulted” because someone wanted to carry the flag of their country of origin is just fucked up. In that context I get the resistance to the wave-the-U.S. flag thing. Ew.

]]> By: chris http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4241 chris Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:24:39 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4241 Thanks...it's hard to keep on top of the news while taking care of the baby, but I am finding the whole immigration debate fascinating. It's such a complex issue, and I'm amazed at the number of people who have mobilized over it. Even abortion rallies do not pull these kinds of numbers, and I wouldn't really expect that. Thanks…it’s hard to keep on top of the news while taking care of the baby, but I am finding the whole immigration debate fascinating. It’s such a complex issue, and I’m amazed at the number of people who have mobilized over it. Even abortion rallies do not pull these kinds of numbers, and I wouldn’t really expect that.

]]> By: Jack http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4233 Jack Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:30:57 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4233 Yeah. I mean, I know that lots of immigrants really do love America (often because they see in it a potential that Western powers, America foremost among them, have completely obliterated in their own countries.) But it's still a weird thing to see. And the "we're good immigrants, those other brown people are the bad ones" really is unacceptable. And, heh, yeah, I know I was gone for a bit too long. I think I'm at a place where I can be around again, finally! Yeah. I mean, I know that lots of immigrants really do love America (often because they see in it a potential that Western powers, America foremost among them, have completely obliterated in their own countries.) But it’s still a weird thing to see. And the “we’re good immigrants, those other brown people are the bad ones” really is unacceptable.

And, heh, yeah, I know I was gone for a bit too long. I think I’m at a place where I can be around again, finally!

]]> By: Jack http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4232 Jack Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:28:29 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4232 "No one is illegal" is a common slogan in the immigrant rights movement. When I say or write it, what I mean is that people, themselves, cannot be illegal. Lots of anti-immigrant rhetoric is really dehumanizing, reducing undocumented immigrants to "illegals," no longer really acknowledged as human beings with human rights, but things, entities to be dealt with coldly and often cruelly. This is particularly evident in the HR 4437 that the House passed, which would actually make it a crime for people, organizations, churches, anyone to simply <em>help</em> an undocumented immigrant. Giving food to someone at a soup kitchen, giving someone a ride to work, taking care of someone's kid while they try to scrape out a living - these could all count as crimes under those laws. It's making the people themselves illegal, and I believe that no one is or should be made out to be illegal, in and of themselves, just because they came to this country, often out of desperation, and didn't follow all of the often oppressive and unfair rules of immigration. I also found a pretty decent explanation on the <a href="http://noii.trick.ca/OurManifesto" rel="nofollow">No One Is Illegal UK website</a> (didn't read the rest of the stuff there, so I don't know how much of the rest of it I'm down with; also, it's a UK group, obviously making things a little different.) "Immigration controls should be abolished. People should not be deemed 'illegal' because they have fallen foul of an increasingly brutal and repressive system of controls. Why is immigration law different from all other law? Under all other laws it is the act that is illegal, but under immigration law it is the person who is illegal. Those subject to immigration control are dehumanized, are reduced to non-persons, are nobodies. They are the modern outlaw. Like their medieval counterpart they exist outside of the law and outside of the law's protection. Opposition to immigration controls requires defending all immigration outlaws." “No one is illegal” is a common slogan in the immigrant rights movement. When I say or write it, what I mean is that people, themselves, cannot be illegal. Lots of anti-immigrant rhetoric is really dehumanizing, reducing undocumented immigrants to “illegals,” no longer really acknowledged as human beings with human rights, but things, entities to be dealt with coldly and often cruelly. This is particularly evident in the HR 4437 that the House passed, which would actually make it a crime for people, organizations, churches, anyone to simply help an undocumented immigrant. Giving food to someone at a soup kitchen, giving someone a ride to work, taking care of someone’s kid while they try to scrape out a living – these could all count as crimes under those laws. It’s making the people themselves illegal, and I believe that no one is or should be made out to be illegal, in and of themselves, just because they came to this country, often out of desperation, and didn’t follow all of the often oppressive and unfair rules of immigration.

I also found a pretty decent explanation on the No One Is Illegal UK website (didn’t read the rest of the stuff there, so I don’t know how much of the rest of it I’m down with; also, it’s a UK group, obviously making things a little different.)

“Immigration controls should be abolished. People should not be deemed ‘illegal’ because they have fallen foul of an increasingly brutal and repressive system of controls. Why is immigration law different from all other law? Under all other laws it is the act that is illegal, but under immigration law it is the person who is illegal. Those subject to immigration control are dehumanized, are reduced to non-persons, are nobodies. They are the modern outlaw. Like their medieval counterpart they exist outside of the law and outside of the law’s protection. Opposition to immigration controls requires defending all immigration outlaws.”

]]> By: chris http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4231 chris Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:42:03 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4231 What do you mean by "no one is illegal?" What do you mean by “no one is illegal?”

]]> By: brownfemipower http://angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/no-one-is-illegal/#comment-4230 brownfemipower Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:31:58 +0000 http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2006/04/10/50#comment-4230 "Latinos, like all other immigrants to the United States, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and are entitled to certain rights and protections because they are human beings, not because they’re good, flag-waving*, American-loving immigrants. No one is illegal, no matter whether your name is Juan or Mohammed, Gonzales or Atta." EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! it's been driving me bananas all this 'we're americans just like you' shit. like you, i realize where everybody is coming from, but come on!!! can't we be just a *tad* more critical of ourselves and the government we want so desperatly to join than that??? ps. that was a *mighty* long awakening from a slumber my friend!!! :-) for reals!! “Latinos, like all other immigrants to the United States, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and are entitled to certain rights and protections because they are human beings, not because they’re good, flag-waving*, American-loving immigrants. No one is illegal, no matter whether your name is Juan or Mohammed, Gonzales or Atta.”

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! it’s been driving me bananas all this ‘we’re americans just like you’ shit. like you, i realize where everybody is coming from, but come on!!! can’t we be just a *tad* more critical of ourselves and the government we want so desperatly to join than that???
ps. that was a *mighty* long awakening from a slumber my friend!!! :-) for reals!!

]]>